Michael Leung | How I Tested An Assisted Hearing Device
Michael Leung - CEO of The Flo Group
Michael shares his story of how he tested his new, open-ear bone conduction headphones with amplification, before bringing them to market
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Summary
In this episode we interview Michael Leung. Michael, is the CEO and founder of the Flo Group. He’s built his company around a simple mission, which is making hearing solutions accessible, affordable, and life-changing for people of all ages.
We discuss how his own personal experiences have shaped his approach to product development and testing. Specifically we dive into how he tested his new, open-ear bone conduction headphones with amplification, before bringing them to market.
Michael and I chat about how to test hardware products and the need for affordable and effective hearing solutions.
Guest Links
LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-leung-462547298/
Website: https://www.theinnerflo.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theflogroup/
Transcript
David J Bland (0:1.894)
Welcome to the podcast, Michael.
Michael (0:3.361)
Well, thanks for having me.
David J Bland (0:5.234)
I'm so excited to have you on. ⁓ The topic is kind of near and dear to my heart with kind of assisted hearing. And also you're in the physical space, which I think is super interesting as well. Because sometimes we think, well, yeah, it's easier to your ideas in software. ⁓ But anything else other than that, I'll just use the traditional methods. And so I'm just really excited where the conversation is going to go. And if you could just give a little background on yourself for our listeners before we jump in.
Michael (0:30.936)
Yeah, for sure. ⁓ I'm from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I'm 44 years old. I'm the CEO founder of the Flow Group. And ⁓ we promote a new, healthy, and affordable way hearing ⁓ through our open-ear bone conduction headphone with a built-in application that aids hearing for people of all ages, ⁓ from mild, moderate to even severe hearing loss. ⁓ And we're trying to go global next year. ⁓ And so far, ⁓ results are amazing.
I've got some grants coming through ⁓ and ⁓ lots of opportunities are happening right now so it's exciting.
David J Bland (1:5.970)
Yeah, I had the pleasure of visiting Calgary last year for Inventures and I keynoted one of their side tracks there. And I was just super impressed with all the startup founders in that region and how even some of the local municipalities are trying to help fund things through and the Canadian government trying to fund things through grants and such. I think people are sleeping on Calgary a bit as far as in an entrepreneurial ecosystem.
Michael (1:34.189)
Oh, 100%. Any senior who I go to, they always just want to help the local people, right? Just to bring the local people into the market and get them exposure and hype them up. Especially as something that's going to help a lot of people.
David J Bland (1:51.482)
Yeah, and so maybe give us some background. So it's assisted hearing and it's a device. ⁓ The problem you're trying to solve, I hope this explained a little bit about your experience with that and kind of what pulled you into this ⁓ startup.
Michael (2:8.557)
Yeah, so what pulled me into startup was I have my own disability. So I have retinitis pigmosa, which I've lost my peripheral on one side. So I can only have tunnel vision, right? And over those timeframe, was like walking, know, leaping off stairs, walking the walls, shoulder checking people. People thought I was going crazy and then found out that it was just my retinal detachment happened 10 years ago and it led into.
this retinitis pigmosa but they have no connections at all. ⁓ So now it could be, it could completely, I could completely lose all my vision one day. could be tomorrow, be two years, 20, 30 years, right? So ⁓ that pushed me to really get things going, you know? Like I had thoughts of doing things like this, ⁓ but this now really pushed me into third gear to really get something going. So ⁓ I don't know how much time, so. ⁓
Over the time frame, my family owned factories in Asia. So they connected me to the right sources and I was able to pitch an idea. We collaborated. We were able to form something that I thought was going to be a good idea. So I had to get samples and I had to trial a lot of different types of samples. A lot of them were pointless, but then you have to trial everything, right? So I canceled the ones that didn't work and then obviously I
I saw the market out there for seniors. have a friend that's an executive director to senior homes. She got me, my foot in the door and it just went off from there. So it became one senior home to 30, 40 senior homes and word of mouth. And when I started visiting seniors, I found out there's a lack of participation. They feel excluded. They feel isolated because A, they don't want to use the hearing aids. It's uncomfortable. It's expensive. They lose it. They have to replace it.
They just don't like the whole ⁓ obstructing the ear canal. ⁓ So my product sits on the outside. It sits in the cheekbone. So now using bone conduction, you can be aware of your surroundings at the same time using sound vibrations. So it's the healthiest way hearing. On top of that, you don't have to worry about earwax builds up. You don't have to worry about anything, direct pressure to your ears. You don't have to worry about losing this thing. And if you lose it, you lose $300, as opposed to $8,000. ⁓ So people are seeing the positive benefits of this.
Michael (4:34.191)
And ⁓ it took a lot of testing and I think I got the trust of the seniors and now I'm trying children with autism. I'm factory workers, blind athletes, ⁓ dementia. It's actually working for many different groups now. ⁓ And ⁓ soon I'm be in the dementia care clinic. They're gonna put me in those ⁓ in there and just work with dementia patients because ⁓ they can't have anything in their ears. So ⁓ they go crazy with anything in their ears. So now this is outside.
they actually don't even feel it it's so comfortable. ⁓ because people with dementia, can only focus on ⁓ one thing or two things, right? So when you got something in your ear, they're already going crazy. They can't focus, right? So this is something that could be transcending ⁓ in the hearing industry. So people are pumping me through. ⁓
David J Bland (5:24.175)
Wow, that's such an impactful story. think...
⁓ coming out of personal challenges. Even myself, don't think a lot of listeners even know this, but two years ago, I suddenly lost hearing in my left ear. And it's been a lot of trial and error for me as well. ⁓ Obviously stages of grief, ⁓ having hearing all your life and losing it versus someone that maybe was born with a condition, right? And my brain is trying to figure out why isn't sound coming out of the side of your head anymore? ⁓ It's surprising to me the lack of products
available on the market and you talk about the traditional hearing aid experience it's not a good experience ⁓ and it's also extremely expensive ⁓ and you know I find myself even just like kind of just either using chat gbt or google or just trying to find hey is there a reddit you know is there some kind of niche thing out there that's for me ⁓ and it's it's surprisingly difficult to find even though a lot of people suffer from
you know, similar ailments ⁓ and things. ⁓ I'm wondering from your side, ⁓ what are some of those early tests you did, you know, because you mentioned, you know, you were kind of ⁓ bumping into people and everything. And obviously, you're trying to cope with this in some way and position yourself in a way where you can get you through your day to day. But what are some of the things that you tried?
⁓ You mentioned, kind of hinted at this earlier in your statement, but can you share a little bit with us about things that you tried and what worked and what didn't early on?
Michael (6:54.933)
for further hearing or for my sight.
David J Bland (6:57.201)
⁓ Let's start with your site and then move into the hearing.
Michael (7:0.029)
Yeah. So this product actually caters to people that have blindness as well. It just happens this is, you know, it helps people to hearing and blindness, right? So we're working with people that are blind because when your sight is diminished, especially the ones that are severe or completely blind, they find this useful because now your hearing is enhanced, right? So now you depend on your secondary hearing.
and that becomes Spider-Man. So now you welcome those background sounds, you welcome the footsteps, the doors opening and closing, because now you can navigate better, you can tell who's around you, right? ⁓ So this product actually helps people that are blind. And ⁓ because ⁓ my first product, it's a one size fits all, it's a one setting, so there will be feedback from the first model, ⁓ so that's more catered to people that are blind, right? So my second model is coming out in September.
we actually were able to ⁓ fine tune it because I got suggestions from people over time and they're like, okay, do you have adjustable headbands? Cause it's different size heads, right? So that was something we tested and we can't do because ⁓ even Shox, Majawa, they all have a similar look like this, right? It looks like this where it hooks onto your ears, right? ⁓ Mouths down with secure fit. ⁓ They don't have any size.
difference because when you change the band into a stretchable band or like something elastic-y, ⁓ it changes the mechanism of it because now you're pulling onto wires and stretching it, right? So there's a reason why it looks like this, right? ⁓ And if you want different sizes, then you got to make special kid sizes or extra large sizes, right? And that costs money, right? So of course, ⁓ that's why I've held back on it, but we decided to ⁓ amp up and advance all the other.
other suggestions or concerns that can make it even better. ⁓ So ⁓ because the other one's a one size fit all in one setting, the amplification ⁓ on the new one has dual volume settings. So now you can change the volume on both sides. The buttons are more senior friendly because the first model, there's ⁓ some holding and clicking of buttons. This one is just ⁓ one sliding button and then the rest is like one click. ⁓ It's more...
Michael (9:23.473)
senior friendly, more easy to use, right? ⁓ There's a sound noise reduction ⁓ chip that's planted in. So ⁓ now it's built in. The moment you wear it, ⁓ the background sounds actually minimized by a lot. ⁓ So people that have hearing loss, they don't hear all the background mumbo jumbo anymore, which drives them crazy. They're like, we hear that with hearing aids, we hear that with your old product. Do you have anything new? And this product worked flying colors, right?
So they're like, could you please have this ⁓ manufactured soon? So now I'm pushing it for September. People are pre-ordering it and I'm going back to all my senior homes and doing this testing and try to get them on pre-order. ⁓ And then ⁓ the last thing we put in was ⁓ there's three modes for three different environments. So you can have outdoor, indoor, and vocal. So you can have ⁓ social interactions in a small setting.
or you can be outside. it actually can, it can actually adjust the environment you're in too, right? So next level stuff, right? So yeah, just a lot of testing and retesting and evolution, right? Just keep revamping things, right?
David J Bland (10:35.024)
Yeah, so it sounds like a lot about getting feedback from people. I imagine some people send emails, maybe some are in conversations and such. How are you sorting through that feedback or how do you begin to even, are you looking for patterns or just explain that process a bit? Because I imagine you get some conflicting feedback and sometimes it's hard to really determine, okay, they're giving us feedback, but what do I do? Is there a problem behind it I'm trying to solve? It may be in a different way.
Michael (10:42.576)
In person, yeah, in person,
Michael (10:53.490)
Yeah.
Michael (11:3.784)
So ⁓ I have really ⁓ severe ADHD. So when I really focus on something I really like, I go like, you know, I think about it day and night and day, I lose sleep over it. So ⁓ then I start thinking what the next best thing could be, ⁓ So when people tell me this, ⁓ it's always in my head that I have to like fix this, I have to change it up. when I talk to my team, we're just, constantly pitching things to them. Like, hey, you gotta fix this, you gotta fix this. I want the perfect product, I want.
And they're just obviously like, hey, you know, you got to give us kind of some slack here. But, you know, like I have to make it affordable at the same time. I have to also make sure I don't overdo it too, right? Because when you get too complicated, things will be more expensive and then, you know, it could cause issues for this technology. Right. So I do get a lot of people saying, you know, head sizes because there are lot of head sizes, but
because you want to cater to the general population of the world. So you try to have like a general average size head. So you know, can't impress everybody, but down the road I will have different sizes. But at the moment, most heads do fit. it is very important to fit because that's where it has to sit on the cheekbone securely, right? So when your head's bigger or smaller, now it's not holding as properly. It might be floating on your head. You got to hold it with your hand, which wouldn't work very well, right?
So the amplification, I have to make sure there's controls, there's volume settings, because when there's no volume, when you put it on, it's one size fit all, one setting, it can be, there could be issues, right? Because some people have different frequencies and they need that different change in frequencies. And because there's a dual volume, I can change it on both sides. So maybe your ear is a little more, know, worse on one side, you can change it a little higher, right? So a lot of different things we thought through.
especially the seniors with the buttons, ⁓ they found it hard to hold buttons and click buttons because ⁓ when you have to hold a button for five seconds with strength, a lot of them are just, ⁓ they don't have that strength to do it. So that became a problem where they had to get assistance. ⁓ And ⁓ of course that can be frustrating, right? Cause you want them to use it on their own too, right? ⁓ So we tried everything, different scenarios and now it's a senior friendly.
Michael (13:31.738)
everything that they ask for it's pretty much there ⁓ and that's why people are loving it right so yeah
David J Bland (13:39.440)
Yeah, it sounds like a lot of feedback and you're always thinking about this, you know, how to take what they're ⁓ giving you as far as feedback and incorporate into your design. think, you know, ⁓ kind of a personal story from my side, right? ⁓ It's ⁓ well, first I was able to hear things panning back and forth and now I can't. So when I try to things like video games, right, because I love playing video games, ⁓ I can't hear the people coming from the left side ⁓ and it gets very frustrating. And so I was like, well.
I could pump all the sound into one side, but then I don't know if it's coming from left to right. ⁓ And I did find like a Kickstarter where people are separating the speakers on one side, you know, and then they're panning up and down instead of left to right, which helps a little bit. But I'm still trying to retrain my brain of all those years of ⁓ you hear something on your left side, you turn left, you know, and now it's kind of like, well, if you hear something on your right side at the top, then you turn left. And that's ⁓
Michael (14:18.448)
Yup. Yup.
David J Bland (14:34.221)
Easier said than done, as far as like retraining. So for the hearing side of things, ⁓ like what kind of feedback are you getting? ⁓ Are you observing people listening, like using it? ⁓ explain a little bit about that process a bit and how you're staying connected to folks.
Michael (14:35.533)
Right.
Michael (14:50.598)
⁓ So basically I do a lot of guest presentations at senior homes. Senior homes at senior homes I spend about an hour, ⁓ presentation about 20-30 minutes just talking about my life, to how I discovered this, to the technology benefits, And special collaborations and then I get into the volunteers testing them one by one. ⁓ I have another product where, so I have a TV. I a TV. I notice seniors actually ⁓ blasting their TV very loud.
So then I have another product where it's a Bluetooth transceiver where you can connect everything and now they can watch TV and mute. So now they don't have to blast the TV and it goes directly to the headphone, right? So they can answer the phone, watch TV all simultaneously and if they want to talk ⁓ through the amplifier, they'll turn the amplifier on and they'll go walk around, talk and come back, right? So ⁓ I do the presentation by testing their hearing through the TV first. ⁓ So I'm like, here's... ⁓
Here's the TV out loud so they can hear it out loud and I mute it and they can hear everything through this headphone, right? ⁓ And then after, ⁓ I'll test them through the application that they watch TV with the amplifier just to see how the sound is comparable. So one is the cinematic sound through the transceiver because it's directly from the TV ⁓ and the other is more of an amplified sound so they can tell the difference, right? So through that, that's when I do the testing and they'll take out their hearing aids.
they'll see how well they hear. And if they can't hear too well, because I have some seniors that are so severe that their hearing aids are worn out, right? So they actually combine the product because one, you can put over top. The hearing aids are in your ear so that you can combine the two. So you got a double stacker. And some found it very beneficial. They're able to hear again. it's because, and it is no right or wrong way. So that's why this is very trendy. And it doesn't have that stereotype behind it, right?
So people that are young that don't want to wear hearing aids because ⁓ they feel like it's going to be stereotyped. Now you can wear this headphone that has this built-in amplification that is like Jane's Bond of hearing aids. ⁓
David J Bland (16:58.723)
Yeah, it's the fashion and the style do play a role. I'm wondering, know, cause you're in hardware, you know, what, ⁓ how do you even begin to test, ⁓ you know, ⁓ different designs and such, and you mentioned some manufacturing experience, maybe that's playing a role here too, but for folks that are listening, they're like, I have a physical product and I'm really having a hard time figuring out how to test different parts of our different designs. You know, what kind of things worked for you?
Michael (17:27.077)
⁓ With mine because there's you see there's like a like ear hook, right? So yeah, that's a sit on the ear ⁓ and I just noticed there's like because there are so many people different ear shapes and stuff too So ⁓ if you don't have ⁓ if you have a ear that doesn't have a deep enough Gap in the front to hold to mount it down. It'll slide, right? So ⁓ so some seniors will wear it and if their heads too big it'll just kind of like
the transducer, the pad would sit inside the ear. It would sit in front, so push it back into the ear, which is not working at all, right? ⁓ So that would just blast the sounds into the eardrum, which is not cool, right? So ⁓ in that case, like, ⁓ the design of it is pretty much the way it looks, because so many other bone conduction headphones out there, they all look the same, but mine's different because mine has amplification built in. No one else has it. So they can only listen to music, talk on the phone, that's all they can do. Mine has
That plus you got this hearing device you can use to socially engage now, right? So with the design is just, yeah, like all the designs I had, all the samples I came with all look the same. It's just the comfortability. When people start wearing mine, this is the most comfortable one they wore to the point where they will wear my demos off into their room and I'm missing, I'm missing some like four or five of them. I'm like, where are going? And then they're in their room still wearing them. They didn't know it was on their head.
And like, there's just a lot of things like I noticed just testing over time is even like the demographics of seniors of like the women were the most engaged with this kind of product. It's kind of weird because you think men would come out because it's technology, right? But they were so worried about the stereotype that they hid in their rooms and their wives would be the ones listening to the show, right? So I would see 40, 50 people and it's like,
45 women three four men and I was like why is this it constant keep happening and then and then after it's done She like can you come to room below my husband's waiting for you? I'm like, okay and another wife say hey, can you come up to the room? My husband's waiting for you So I have to secretly go see the husband's because they don't want to wear their hearing aids actually own hearing aids and some of the refuse to wear them which is crazy, right so Now you can wear this Comfortably and you don't have to wear your hearing aids You have to worry about losing them put them aside on a wedding or important day
Michael (19:53.956)
You can wear this in the premises, right? ⁓ So ⁓ now it's more ⁓ trendier and I feel like in the beginning it was almost like pulling teeth because when I first came they were like, no, it's okay. ⁓ They rejected it because they thought it was a young person's thing. ⁓ As more and more people started wearing it, Bob started wearing it, Heidi ⁓ started wearing it and then they're like, I want to wear what Bob's wearing now. then they all, it's like the trend, they all kind of started storming ⁓ in. it's just, I noticed that
The ⁓ afterwards now, there's actually more men coming out now. It's like, you know, technically it's for everybody, right? ⁓ And when they get really into it, they're super into technology. So it's just more of the embarrassment of wearing hearing aids. That's why they don't show up, right? But yeah, that's stuff you learn too. It's like, I never thought that would be, you know, that big of a drastic difference in percentage that comes out, ⁓ right? But.
David J Bland (20:49.238)
Yeah, I couldn't have predicted that either. think, I mean, that's ⁓ the brilliance of going out and trying it and then having an open mind and not explaining it away. You know, it sounds like you were very ⁓ attuned to, hey, ⁓ something's going on here and getting to the underlying cause, you know, of the embarrassment. mean, that ⁓ I find so many founders, you know, ⁓ create these perfect products, you know, in their head and they and then they get really frustrated when people don't adopt them and buy them. ⁓ And
they don't spend enough time with those underlying issues of what would prevent adoption. So that's a very, very interesting. So it sounds as if you have sort of like different demographics for your product. You have sort of the older demographic, but then you also are marketing to other younger folks as well. So does that change your messaging at all? like, how does that impact sort of your acquisition? have you thought about that of?
Michael (21:46.903)
Duh.
David J Bland (21:47.128)
how you market to different segments.
Michael (21:49.462)
That's a question actually. Haven't anyone asked me that. ⁓ yeah, so ⁓ at first I was kind of like catering to everybody. But then when you work with seniors, I was told that, you know, focus on them only for now. And then everything else kind of branch off. Because when you start telling them, hey, got labor workers, got, you know, this and that and children, they start kind of thinking, you know, things are too, ⁓ too all over the place. And they get kind of confused. ⁓ It's like you, and if you want to help them, you...
just say, you know, this is for seniors, for seniors, because it just sounds like that you're just trying to, you know, put your head in too many cookie jars, right? So seniors kind of get, they help, kind of they hold back a bit on that, right? So I learned to, when I do senior presentations, I just talk about seniors. I try not to bring up anyone else. I do say it for all ages, but then I just leave it at that, right? Because I'm working with them directly, right? So I just tell them all my experience working with seniors.
and they trust me because I resonate with them. Because I have this eye disability, it puts me into a comfortable position with them because they don't feel like I'm a sales guy. I'm trying to sell them stuff and I never push my products on them. If they want to think it over, please think it over because I don't want you to jump in and buy something you don't want to buy. By all means, please bring your children in these events. When the children comes...
they ⁓ gravitate towards this because they're like, please, is there anything else out there? And can you help my parents? And they're the financial supplier. So they always have to ask my children first, So for me, it's like my product is so useful. I'm ⁓ not those easy money guys that I need to sell today. I know people are going to come back. I know there's going to sell. So I'm not even worried, right? And the fact that anyone can have a product out there.
But if you don't go and actually put your work through and test people ⁓ one by one in the hundreds and thousands, no one's going to buy your thing. it's like, that's why I'm not worried about someone copying me or someone actually changing it up. Cause I, ⁓ it's been known that I'm out there already doing this. I'm actually, you know, like ⁓ going door by door. actually drive door to door. People call me, I fit them in, I drive to their doorstep, go, go walk in CEO fitting them, you know, you got to put the hard work into it.
Michael (24:6.889)
Or else it's just a product that's not gonna sell. have the best thing ever, it's never gonna go anywhere.
David J Bland (24:12.319)
I agree, I agree. And people can copy the what, but they don't understand the why and the especially they don't usually understand the customers as well as you because you're doing all the hard work to understand ⁓ your customers. So it sounds as if you're being very thoughtful about it ⁓ and the way you're positioning it.
So you mentioned you have different form factors. It sounds like you've tested other bone conducting ⁓ units and everything and saw the sort of gap. I think that's very interesting as well because we always talk about...
I don't know, I get all these questions about, well, we're in red ocean and blue ocean and ⁓ red oceans, know, race to the bottom and it was hard to stand out and everything. And we can never find an unmet need and because there's so many products. And I find that to be less and less true. You know, it seems as if personalization is ⁓ really important to people. And no matter how many products exist in a category, there's usually, you know, you can even go back and look at the reviews and see.
Okay, there's some they don't do certain things well, you know. And so it feels as if you the amplification, you know, that's how you came to that as well. And so I'm wondering, sort of like moving forward, you you have this coming out in September, which this episode should be there in September as well. So that's good timing. Do you have like big assumptions you're testing or things that you're worried about to keep you up at night?
Michael (25:15.189)
for ⁓ sure. ⁓
Michael (25:33.383)
Nice nice
David J Bland (25:41.324)
that ⁓ sort of moving forward because you can definitely base off of what you've learned ⁓ but moving forward like what are the things
We often phrase these as desirable, viable, feasible. Desirable being the customer, ⁓ viable being willingness to pay in cost, and feasible being your ability to execute. ⁓ So are there any things around the customer or even, I ⁓ don't know how heavily regulated this industry is in Canada, ⁓ willingness to pay? Where are you drawn to out of those? Is there something that's keeping you up at night at the moment that you want to test?
Michael (26:13.281)
That's a great question too. That's something that I would really ask, which I love to answer too. There are some concerns for me because new technology is always improving, it's always evolving, but that's why I always keep up to date with what I'm doing and I'm always talking to my team. And I would never do anything to go backwards. With this product, it's going to be better and better, even with the charging. The last one took two hours, this one took one hour.
⁓ The last one was eight hours, I this to last 10 hours for usage. So it's gonna keep building me and next will be 12 hours. So people want more usage out of it and less charging time. And of course the ⁓ first one was more complicated, now this one's more senior friendly. maybe the next one will be voice control, where you just talk and it just turns ⁓ on. ⁓ So less operating with your hands. ⁓ But ⁓ I feel like...
Because now there's AI, there's so many different things. people ask me, you want to do AI? I was like, I don't think I want to complicate things anymore with my product. It's good the way it is. ⁓ And it can change ⁓ in the design. It can be even more comfortable, more lightweight. With Shox, it's like, so Shox, if you look between me and Shox, it looks like half the size of this actually. Because they don't have as much mechanism, because mine has the amplification in it, right? So it has all these extra chips in it.
that looks a more bold looking. Theirs looks more thin and lightweight because it only does what they do, But their technology is high up there, so that's why a lot of people wear them, right? But I can't say I want to copy their design or make it as small as them because maybe one day can make the chips even smaller, I guess, right? But with the market, I'm never really worried about that this is going to go out of style or this is going to fade away because it's a necessity.
And I see the demand for it and how it lights up people's eyes. It's almost like life-changing. ⁓ they're just like, I just want to listen to my grandchild talk. ⁓ And then they put it on, how they can hear. They're like, at the dinner table, everyone leaves us out of the conversation because they don't think we can hear. ⁓ And I just go along and just nod my head, pretend I'm hearing it, and I don't understand. ⁓ So then they're just like, please. then helping people with dementia. ⁓ Because their spouse is like, desperate. They're like,
Michael (28:38.015)
They don't want to hear any aids. They can't hear anything. I'm shouting at them with my throat and I'm losing my voice. Is there anything? I give them my product for three weeks, four weeks for free just to try it. To me, it comes a long way when you help people. Instead of like, I would charge you this for this for this. It's like, it's for free because I know they're going to come back and refer me people and they're going to buy the new device for me.
So the more you help people, ⁓ the more you go and show your face and do these special things for people, ⁓ I never worry that I'm gonna go fade away into the sunset or anything. I always feel like I'm gonna have the upper hand. So I'm not worried about a lot of factors. I'm just more, ⁓ I guess, ⁓ maybe if someone else comes up with something better, or something even ⁓ less expensive, like, know, definitely it could happen, right?
But like I said, I'm not that worried either because they have to put their work in. So if they don't put their work in, they just have this project throw out there and no one's going to buy it either. ⁓ So that's why I have this ⁓ first step ahead of everybody, which is that's why I'm going on Dragon's Den. have a Legacy Maker coming on this summer, right? So yeah.
David J Bland (29:40.609)
Yeah.
David J Bland (29:54.381)
That's awesome, Dragon's Den, that's a big time. I'm wondering, and I kind of glanced over this earlier, but when we talked about those three themes of desirable, feasible, and feasibility, ⁓ is this regulated? Because it's not, is it a hearing aid or classified not as a hearing aid or help me understand that a bit? Because I'm sure there's people dabbling in this industry and they're like, ⁓ I can never do this. Because like here in the States, we have FDA approvals and all this other stuff. ⁓ how is that, how are you navigating all that? Or is that not a worry?
Michael (30:14.812)
Yeah. ⁓
Michael (30:20.922)
I'm not too worried. The product is patented on my supplier side and I trademark it as all North America. It's more of a recreational product but it actually has health benefits for it. So I've been asked if I should make it a health, a medical approved product. But if I do, now I've to put it through all these testing. I have to pay for the testing. Now this product is going be $200, $300, it's going be $1,000 now.
So people respect that it costs much less than hearing aids, where I'm actually thinking of promoting a Walmart Best Buy where people can just puck it off the shelf and wear it without going to get their ear tested. So it's just easy and convenient. I don't have to make it medical and I'm still, people are still like senior homes. I got innovation places, I got audiologists all willing to work with me. No one's kicking me out saying, you know, you don't belong here.
But hearing aid companies, when I do presentations with them, they separate me with them because they give me the little dirty stink eye sometimes because they're like, why are there so many people lining up for him? And then they come and try to you know, knock on me and try to break me down a bit. They're like, what is this? Does this thing even work? And I was like, oh, works, you know? And they're just like, kind of like a little worried. Right, but.
David J Bland (31:43.725)
It reminds me little bit of like the audio industry. I went to a talk in Silicon Valley and one of the co-founders of Tesla and he was talking about the early days where they would go to car shows and all the, know, I see, you know, internal combustion engine folks would come over just like stare at them like, what are you trying to do? That's never going to work, you know. But then you fast forward to today and all these EVs and everything are popularized. But ⁓ I think that's that's comes along with, you know, the early adopter sort of like when you're you're pushing things a bit, ⁓ you are going to get, you know, the stink eye.
on some of this. ⁓ But it sounds as if ⁓ the way you've classified it, ⁓ it's interesting because if you think of like, look what Apple's doing, With, you know, their AirPods and things, you know, they're kind of blurring the line. I can say just from my experience working with medical companies and biotech companies, ⁓ they're terrified of the consumerism of some of this stuff, you know, because people will go to Apple and say, well, why would I go get a hearing aid or I can just get...
you know, these things with, you know, assisted hearing assistance, you know, on them. So I do think the line's getting blurred. I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing. I do think, you know, as long as you're solving a problem for people, obviously, like it's really important. But I feel like you're, it seems like you're navigating that, you know, so far. So, so you have sort of these, these products that are born out of personal things you've experienced. And now you're realizing that there are these other segments that you
that also share similar problems that you can solve. ⁓ Where do you see this going in the future, ⁓ beyond even September ⁓ and beyond? Where do you see potential of ⁓ how you can solve problems for people? Is there anything that really gets you excited or ⁓ maybe a segment you haven't even contemplated yet?
Michael (33:30.429)
⁓ I'm excited for ⁓ this global recognition, this global branding, because right now it's just ⁓ in Calgary and I'm kind of just hitting up the neighboring cities. But ⁓ I have ⁓ Toronto, Vancouver, where I'm eventually going to start merging other provinces ⁓ and then slowly and then of course my TV show Legacy Makers that's actually going to be streamed on all major platforms. So when that comes out, it's going to be, you know, there's celebrities, there's
some top named celebrities on it, they're featured on it, and then you got 225 entrepreneurs like me that they actually focus and talk about their life and their products and how it impacts ⁓ the ⁓ socially impactful. ⁓ So this TV show, I feel like that would really ⁓ bring me to the next level ⁓ and people would actually find out about this globally. ⁓ through the podcasting, I'm doing many of these podcasts, like some in Australia, some in India.
So it's just like, in the moment they hear about it, they're like, wow, this thing is amazing. When can we get one? Like my dad needs one, my son needs one. Like, it's just, that excites me because it's almost like, and the most excitement I get is when I actually test people and I see some of them are tearing, you know, and it just makes me, it my heart warm because it's like such a simple product. I never thought it would get to that extent. And now I felt it and I see it. I know, now I know it can be like, it can hit, you know, the low income families. This is what we're trying to get grants for.
So low income families can't afford hearing aids, they can't qualify. They have nothing to work with. So now you have this and you get for free for them through the government grants. Now they're gonna be, ⁓ quality of life's increased, ⁓ they can hear, they can socialize. Imagine all these low income people able to hear now, know, what great of a world this would be. ⁓ So, ⁓ you know, that excites me, yeah.
David J Bland (35:22.358)
Thank you. ⁓ I love that you shared your story with us. ⁓ I feel like there's so many possibilities with what you have. And it feels like as long as you're staying really connected to your customers and understanding their problems, you're making this product better and better. ⁓ If folks want to reach out to you and they've heard you on this episode, whether it's investors or other people, maybe they're experiencing ⁓ some of the challenges ⁓ your product solves, how would they reach out to you? What's the best way?
Michael (35:50.053)
Yeah, my website is www.theinnerflow.com. So T-H-E-I-N-N-E-R-F-L-O.com. So without the W, F-L-O. ⁓ And that has ⁓ content, technology, benefits, online shopping. ⁓ And online shopping is only for Canada and U.S. right now, but I'm to start opening up other countries later because of the demand. ⁓ And then ⁓ you can open my emails on there. They can reach support. That's also me.
I'm doing everything for ⁓ now. then of course we're gonna revamp the website to put blogs on there, we're put partnerships, ⁓ logos and brands and ⁓ TV shows. Anything's gonna be on my website later. ⁓ And of course ⁓ my ⁓ social media is ⁓ the Flo Group. So that's Instagram, the Flo Group, so T-H-E-F-L-O Group. So yeah, that's where they can find me.
David J Bland (36:48.426)
Awesome. We'll put those links on the page as well. But if you're listening and you want to reach out to Michael, please do so. I want to thank you so much for hanging out. mean, again, this is a topic near and dear to my heart, too. And I loved how you talked about, you know, testing your way through different iterations of this product ⁓ and really trying to make it better for people. I just really appreciate you being open and honest and sharing your journey with us today.
Michael (37:9.156)
Thank you, I had a great time, it's one of my favorites. ⁓ I got really deep into this one. ⁓
David J Bland (37:14.438)
Thanks for joining.
Michael (37:15.854)
Great questions. Thank you. ⁓
